Character Count

[MeltingHolster]

Okay, I understand your concern better now.

So what would you propose as compensation for those players who are going to lose characters in which they've invested time and resources?

I'm kind of a hardass, so if it were up to me I guess I'd say nothing, as they aren't entitled to anything on a free emulated server.

But since people seem so concerned about it, if I had to come up with something on the spot I think a fair gift for their time would be to fastforward their vet reward status so they could pick two or three gifts?

Everyone keeps saying "this is a free server so don't expect anything". Does no one realize a lot of people have donated money to this server? We should remember that before we say such things.

I say, figure out a way to give rewards to players based on the characters' they've lost stats/inventory. Every skill box you have, your credits, etc. increase what kind of gift you receive for that character when it's lost. Just an example:

John loses a Master Bounty Hunter, he gets a set of Mandalorian Armor for his main.
Jake loses a Novice Teras Kasi Artist, he gets 100,000 credits for his main.
(Don't get all crazy now, just an example xD)

[darriandm]

Everyone keeps saying "this is a free server so don't expect anything". Does no one realize a lot of people have donated money to this server? We should remember that before we say such things.

I realize that and plan on donating myself next month. But that's what it is. A donation to keep the servers running.

Yeah, it's reasonable to give them a gift to say "hey, sorry you had to deal with this" but I stick by what I said, they aren't entitled to anything. They were never sold a service and they will never be sold a service.

[ChyldeMyst]

Wait, we get Veteran rewards?

[Lennart]

I agree that none of us (except those that own the servers and put in the actual coding and admin work) are entitled to anything. However, I also believe that if you are going to get the most people in agreement on what should be done, you need to not ignore those who stand to lose a substantial investment of time and effort...unless you really want to create an instantaneous, hardcore opposition to your idea.

Are they "entitled" to compensation for their loss? No. But just like you have stated you would leave if they were grandfathered into keeping 10 toons, perhaps they would be inclined to leave if they were not compensated in any way for the loss. The admins will decide what they believe is best, but I'm sure they'd rather not take extreme actions that drive players away...or just like when you looked into the crystal ball and predicted what people might say about Awakening in the future, instead it might be said: "I heard they wiped out entire characters that people took months to grind out, without giving them anything in return. I wonder if they'd do that in the future?"

[BigQEd]

I'm kind of a hardass, so if it were up to me I guess I'd say nothing, as they aren't entitled to anything on a free emulated server.
But since people seem so concerned about it, if I had to come up with something on the spot I think a fair gift for their time would be to fastforward their vet reward status so they could pick two or three gifts?

Everyone keeps saying "this is a free server so don't expect anything". Does no one realize a lot of people have donated money to this server? We should remember that before we say such things.

Yes, some folks have donated. I definitely appreciate the assistance to help support the costs and overhead of the server. I can, however, tell you none of the staff are paid and several spend more hours working on Awakening, than a typical full time job.

[BigQEd]

Wait, we get Veteran rewards?

Yes!

[MeltingHolster]

Everyone keeps saying "this is a free server so don't expect anything". Does no one realize a lot of people have donated money to this server? We should remember that before we say such things.

I realize that and plan on donating myself next month. But that's what it is. A donation to keep the servers running.

Yeah, it's reasonable to give them a gift to say "hey, sorry you had to deal with this" but I stick by what I said, they aren't entitled to anything. They were never sold a service and they will never be sold a service.

That's the kind of attitude I expect from the Basilisk community. This is a game that is meant to be fun, it shouldn't be a service to keep people happy.

Yes, some folks have donated. I definitely appreciate the assistance to help support the costs and overhead of the server. I can, however, tell you none of the staff are paid and several spend more hours working on Awakening, than a typical full time job.

We aren't talking about the staff here, we're talking about people losing their characters and how to deal with it. I don't know why you even brought that up, lol. You make it sound like it is a chore to run this server, it should be fun for you. If it's not, then why do it?

EDIT: Here's what I'm trying to say: You want this server to go far, right? How do you expect people to put effort here when you basically tell them "I don't care about your feelings"? We appreciate you guys work to keep this server up. Respect has to go both ways, though. I remember Cynar even saying once in general chat "Don't thank us, thank /YOU/. Without you guys, we wouldn't even have a server to run."

[darriandm]

you need to not ignore those who stand to lose a substantial investment of time and effort...

I think we're overstating things here. First of all, grinding out a full template combat toon is really not that difficult or time consuming. That said, it's irrelevant, because I really doubt there is *anyone* in game right now with all ten character slots with characters at full template that they actually play on.

People are using these slots for their lots, storage space, and to sample, and they don't want to lose that. If those players will be upset no matter how we lower the limit, I would consider that a price to pay for server longevity.

Basically, the point I'm trying to make is "Oh, a few people will be upset!" isn't a good enough reason to do damage to the health of the overall economy. I'm not saying "screw everyone who is upset, give them all nothing!" like I said, I think a decent gift would be a few vet rewards. Some fun cosmetic decorations and such. What I *am* saying is people should stop acting like the thought of lowering the limit is a personal slight against them.

[Lennart]

First of all, grinding out a full template combat toon is really not that difficult or time consuming.

Not all toons are full template combat toons. I'm working my way through the musician grind right now. It is fairly brutal, frankly. As someone who never played pre-CU, I'm finding *all* the grinds challenging. I realize that is because this is new to me...but you've made several assumptions on amount of time invested, amount of r/l experience in doing this, r/l time available to do the grind, etc., when in point of fact there are varying levels of experience, time, knowledge, etc. out there. It may not be all that difficult to *you*, and there's nothing wrong with that...but you cannot judge everyone by the same standard when it comes to ease of play or time and effort invested.

[darriandm]

Not all toons are full template combat toons. I'm working my way through the musician grind right now. It is fairly brutal, frankly. As someone who never played pre-CU, I'm finding *all* the grinds challenging. I realize that is because this is new to me...but you've made several assumptions on amount of time invested, amount of r/l experience in doing this, r/l time available to do the grind, etc., when in point of fact there are varying levels of experience, time, knowledge, etc. out there. It may not be all that difficult to *you*, and there's nothing wrong with that...but you cannot judge everyone by the same standard when it comes to ease of play or time and effort invested.

Alright then, well, the type of person that has 10 full template characters in the amount of time this server has been live (not long) is the type of person that has no problem grinding a full template character. Is that better and makes less assumptions?

My other point still stands. I would like to see a single person who has 10 full template characters that they play and use for more than sampling / lots. If even a single one comes forward with that, then I would be concerned that this is as big of a deal as you say it is. As of right now, I think people are more concerned about losing their lots and self-sufficiency, both of which I think are a bad thing and should go, because the game wasn't designed to function this way.

From my perspective, it's kind of like there's this game breaking bug that allows people an advantage, and people are worried it might be fixed because then they won't have that convenience anymore.

Yeah, your life gets less convenient but... it's a bug, it needs to be fixed.

[Lennart]

Alright then, well, the type of person that has 10 full template characters in the amount of time this server has been live (not long) is the type of person that has no problem grinding a full template character. Is that better and makes less assumptions?

Nope...but don't worry about it. Challenging assumptions to get closer to the truth in something, particularly in challenging my own assumptions, is what I do for a living, which makes me very hard to please in that aspect!

Thanks for taking the time to explain your point. I can see your concern about the economic impact of leaving some with 10 and others with only 5, assuming all other things were kept the same. I imagine there are some things our glorious leaders could do to mitigate that and level the playing field, but I don't have sufficient knowledge to give concrete suggestions.

I'd also like to thank you for being open minded and understanding of the point that taking something from someone in which they've invested effort could create bad feelings and animosity towards this server and its activities, and how important it is to minimize that wherever possible. I am confident the devs will be able to find the best possible fix that preserves the future of the server and yet still values not only the monetary contributions of the players, but also their investment in time and effort to make player-generated content for all of us to enjoy.

[BigQEd]

We aren't talking about the staff here, we're talking about people losing their characters and how to deal with it. I don't know why you even brought that up, lol. You make it sound like it is a chore to run this server, it should be fun for you. If it's not, then why do it?

I mentioned the staff because you mentioned donations. Please understand no one donates more than the staff. I can also tell you, no one signs up for server issues that make you work (and yes it's work) 18-20 hour days (and sometimes you definitely ask yourself "why do it?"). If you believe someone would have fun with that scenario, I'm not sure what to say.

But really, this subject is about what makes sense for the game itself. The economy and long term sustainability. No one has said we are doing anything, I wanted to see some opinions. In the future, I guess I shouldn't ask opinions. I apologize.

[nannernanner]

I think those who have put time & effort into the characters they currently have should be able to keep those characters. The thought of all that work being undone reminds me of feelings that playing on Basilisk used to give me... which led me to Awakening. If the characters were grandfathered in for those of us who have been using them thus far, I would change my vote to 5 or less.

I feel that allowing this many characters was probably necessary to help get things rolling on the server. I do not feel it is necessary for it to continue that way. I agree that leaving the character count at 10 long term could cause stability issues as well as cause the ingame economy to dry up. It also would not feel good to lose what we've been working on.

With that said, I trust you guys to make a decision that is fair/reasonable. It pleases me that you are taking the time to read the community's comments & consider our feelings on the matter as it is really not up to us.

[MeltingHolster]

We aren't talking about the staff here, we're talking about people losing their characters and how to deal with it. I don't know why you even brought that up, lol. You make it sound like it is a chore to run this server, it should be fun for you. If it's not, then why do it?

I mentioned the staff because you mentioned donations. Please understand no one donates more than the staff. I can also tell you, no one signs up for server issues that make you work (and yes it's work) 18-20 hour days (and sometimes you definitely ask yourself "why do it?"). If you believe someone would have fun with that scenario, I'm not sure what to say.

But really, this subject is about what makes sense for the game itself. The economy and long term sustainability. No one has said we are doing anything, I wanted to see some opinions. In the future, I guess I shouldn't ask opinions. I apologize.

I definitely get that it's hard work but you should be doing it because you enjoy the game, it's not worth doing all the work if in the end you're more stressed out than enjoying the time... the work should make it all worth it. It's like raising a family. It's hard work but it should make you happy to do the work because you know what it is that you're working for. That's what I meant by having fun. Sure, the work isn't fun but the goal that is in your head while doing it should make it worth it.

I'm sorry if my opinion offends you but that's just the way it is. You asked for opinions and people may not have an opinion you want to hear at the time.

[BigQEd]

I definitely get that it's hard work but you should be doing it because you enjoy the game, it's not worth doing all the work if in the end you're more stressed out than enjoying the time... the work should make it all worth it. It's like raising a family. It's hard work but it should make you happy to do the work because you know what it is that you're working for. That's what I meant by having fun. Sure, the work isn't fun but the goal that is in your head while doing it should make it worth it.

And what if you raise a family of axe murders? Was it worth it and rewarding? lol

[MeltingHolster]

I definitely get that it's hard work but you should be doing it because you enjoy the game, it's not worth doing all the work if in the end you're more stressed out than enjoying the time... the work should make it all worth it. It's like raising a family. It's hard work but it should make you happy to do the work because you know what it is that you're working for. That's what I meant by having fun. Sure, the work isn't fun but the goal that is in your head while doing it should make it worth it.

And what if you raise a family of axe murders? Was it worth it and rewarding? lol

If you raise a family of axe murderers than you didn't raise them very well, did you?

It's all about how you look at things. Work to me is life, not something that should give you a reason to put yourself above others or have self-pity for doing.

[Zizzs]

I definitely get that it's hard work but you should be doing it because you enjoy the game, it's not worth doing all the work if in the end you're more stressed out than enjoying the time... the work should make it all worth it. It's like raising a family. It's hard work but it should make you happy to do the work because you know what it is that you're working for. That's what I meant by having fun. Sure, the work isn't fun but the goal that is in your head while doing it should make it worth it.

And what if you raise a family of axe murders? Was it worth it and rewarding? lol

Depends, did they get caught?

[BigQEd]

If you raise a family of axe murderers than you didn't raise them very well, did you?

My point is... I bet it wasn't very fun when you heard they enjoyed killing people with an axe. And I think we all know, it's not always the parents fault that their kid becomes an axe murderer. lol

Same as you don't start a server to work 18-20 hrs a day. Luckily, we can correct server issues...

[BigQEd]

Depends, did they get caught?

Yes. Let's go with, yes... lol

[tarnwar]

My 2 cents here... I voted 5 because that gives the player enough to make an Ent, Doc/cm, 2 combat toons and a craft toon if they want or 2 craft toons and 1 combat... point is theres plenty you can do with 5. no one player should have the power to do everything for themselves