How to encourage more PvP?

[zackjdl]

I love PvP, it's all I do when I play pretty much any MMORPG except this game. Why is there a lack of PvP in this game? There are many reasons, just to list a few...

The rewards aren't great
Sure you can get an AT-ST and some decent house decor but REALLY? Nobody uses an AT-ST in every-day combat. The only use of an AT-ST is to increase mission payout, which anyboby can get by joining a solo group. For most people, the rewards are just lackluster and not really worth it.

Killing players doesn't reward enough / Bases reward too much
Nobody goes PvP to earn points. The only reason anybody would kill another player is to be annoying. If you really want to earn points, you kill bases or run missions, Period.

Fights are too long...
We've all seen it, a battle lasting for 30+ minutes where somebody lost because they desynced, ran out of buffs, or just died to wounds. After the first 5 minutes of a fight like this, everybody just wants to leave and go home. Huge resource/time waste for most people.

Death penalty too severe
A big reason many people stay Covert or avoid PvP combat is because you get punished too hard for losing. Most games allow you to jump right back in after death.
1. You lose ALL your buffs (Which translates to lost money/time)
2. You lose faction points (This is one of the only games I've played where you actually lose points for dying which discourages newbie PvPers)
3. You are forced to spawn far away and usually cannot re-engage in PvP until you heal your wounds and get rebuffed (20+ minutes)

I think if we can address these points somehow, it would make people want to actually PvP. I have a few ideas of my own but I'd like to now open this up for discussion as this should be a joint effort! Keep your ideas simple. The developers don't have the time to create any massive projects. I know we can increase PvP just by tweaking some numbers or mechanics.

[Kelec]

Nobody runs missions for faction. That's not efficient in the slightest.

I'm not sure how many fights you've been in but if they are taking 30m+ its probably because they're evenly matched including support toons. Most fights actual fighting last less than 5m in my experience.

PVP has been tainted by a stigma that its something only people who are dicks do. Its been around for ages. The fact of the matter is that no amount of gear or weapons or people will make up for skilled players who know there limits and abilities.

For meaningful PVP to occur (group based) an objective is needed. Destroying bases is a good example, currently there isn't a draw to do this for two reason, people don't want to because it's hard and they don't care because they're mostly grinding jedi.

[zackjdl]

Nobody runs missions for faction. That's not efficient in the slightest.

I meant for when a Neutral player wants to join a faction or if somebody isn't strong enough to take out bases.

I'm not sure how many fights you've but if they are taking 30m+ its probably because they're evenly matched including support toons. Most fights actual fighting last less than 5m in my experience.

Even for 2 players who are evenly matched, a fight lasting for even 5 minutes is still pretty long. And short battles only happen because one person is far superior to the other.

For meaningful PVP to occur (group based) an objective is needed. Destroying bases is a good example, currently there isn't a draw to do this for two reason, people don't want to because it's hard and they don't care because they're mostly grinding jedi.

I wouldn't consider grouping to kill a base PvP... sounds more like PvE to me.

[Kelec]

Oh lord, you clearly don't understand how GCW is supposed to work if you think you can solo a base.

For objective PVP to work both sides have to gain something from the process (win or lose).

Regarding combat duration. You're not going to get sweeping combat balance changes so you might as well give up on that point.

[zackjdl]

Oh lord, you clearly don't understand how GCW is supposed to work if you think you can solo a base.

I think you're missing the point of this thread. This isn't about killing NPC faction bases for points, this is about how we can encourage players to fight other players.

For objective PVP to work both sides have to gain something from the process (win or lose).

I LOVE objective group PvP but without a PvP arena, this isn't going to happen. If we could implement a PvP arena that would be freaking AMAZING but I know that the developers probably don't have time to work on a massive project like that. For now, I'm talking of ways to increase world PvP.

Regarding combat duration. You're not going to get sweeping combat balance changes so you might as well give up on that point.

Don't need to re-balancing the whole combat system, all you would need is to implement a few PvP restrictions. For example, many games reduce healing effects while in PvP. *Hint hint*

Ultimately, I'm thinking of solutions that aren't going to take months to create/implement. We just need to tweak/adjust/add a few things and we can get the server to start PvPing more!

[DarkLordIce]

You keep using the word reward.


SWG never rewarded people for doing things. The reward was the doing. The game was designed around players making everything from the weapons on the battlefield to the battlefield itself.

My reward is kicking the shit out of those scumbag rebels and traitors to the Empire. If I fail, my motivation is to figure out how to succeed next time.

PvP is lacking because people are not invested in their faction, and find things they would rather be invested in.

[zackjdl]

My reward is kicking the shit out of those scumbag rebels and traitors to the Empire. If I fail, my motivation is to figure out how to succeed next time.

PvP is lacking because people are not invested in their faction, and find things they would rather be invested in.

That's totally cool and I get you, but that's more of a Roleplaying thing. Players who don't roleplay (Such as myself) don't get the same urge to kill the other faction because they are "traitors to the Empire". I don't know the % of people who are into Roleplaying here but I'm trying to reach out to a more general audience.

I'm a Bounty Hunter in-game and I don't hunt Jedi because Darth Vader ordered us to, I hunt Jedi because it's fun, challenging, and ultimately, it pays pretty well

[BigQEd]

I'm a Bounty Hunter in-game and I don't hunt Jedi because Darth Vader ordered us to, I hunt Jedi because it's fun, challenging, and ultimately, it pays pretty well

BUT.... Vader did order it....

[Lasod]

they made a game based upon Pavlov's bell already, its called every mmo ever.

video games are designed to make the player want to play again, they are inherently, by design, repetitive. the online multi player part is where the randomness comes from, if the players cant be inventive then the original design takes over.

the initial design of this game it has always been up to the players to make the day to day part of the game more interesting. the tools are there, we as a player base ( with the assistance of the event coordinator Thor) just need to generate the daily fun.

if there is a noticeable lack within a profession within the game play
**Cough** Smuggler ** Cough **
that where the developers come in to fix things

the rest is really up to us, thats how the game was designed, wanting the game to do more to make us log in every day is what caused the NGE

[Pyrozest]

I've run around overt for hours, many hours for weeks, and don't run into another overt of opposing faction. Coverts of the other faction never attack me if I am buffed (i see them looking at me, and then look away and leave.) Only people to attack me are finished templated Jedi.

Lets play a game...what is my faction?

[zackjdl]

they made a game based upon Pavlov's bell already, its called every mmo ever.

video games are designed to make the player want to play again, they are inherently, by design, repetitive. the online multi player part is where the randomness comes from, if the players cant be inventive then the original design takes over.

the initial design of this game it has always been up to the players to make the day to day part of the game more interesting. the tools are there, we as a player base ( with the assistance of the event coordinator Thor) just need to generate the daily fun.

if there is a noticeable lack within a profession within the game play
**Cough** Smuggler ** Cough **
that where the developers come in to fix things

the rest is really up to us, thats how the game was designed, wanting the game to do more to make us log in every day is what caused the NGE

I get it, we all had bad experiences and we are afraid to cause NGE or Pre CU again. Please understand that I'm not asking for a major overhaul of the game. All I'm suggesting is tweaking a few things here and there to make PvP more desirable without changing the game itself. I think most people will agree that the game in it's current state doesn't really give players a reason to fight each other. The only real PvP currently in the game is BH vs Jedi.

[Unholyfrostgod]

I run around overt even on my non force sensitive characters people do not attack me. I am a rebel and I can even walk around unbuffed overt without fear because Imperials do not attack. That should not be the case I shouldn't be able to do this without a fight. People that I have fought are sypher who was running around overt and Mannax and one other pikeman in bdsm have attacked me in the previous months and I appreciate you three for the fight. I will attack any and all overt Imperials outside of Jedi because of course none of my pvp toons can 1v1 a Jedi atm.

What we need is for pvp deaths to cause a death lockout from pvp for like 2 to 5 minutes to prevent zerging but still promoting healthy pvp so people don't have to get fully rebuffed again.

[zackjdl]

What we need is for pvp deaths to cause a death lockout from pvp for like 2 to 5 minutes to prevent zerging but still promoting healthy pvp so people don't have to get fully rebuffed again.

Can you elaborate a bit on "Death Lockout"? Not really sure what you mean by this.

[Unholyfrostgod]

Like say you have 2 hours left on buffs when you die in pvp. That doesn't change when you die timer wise you keep that two hours but like when a spice falls off your stats get reduced for that time. Maybe a proper way to call it would be a pvp death timeout. I don't know I feel it would be helpful I pvp regardless.

[Scub]

PVP has been tainted by a stigma that its something only people who are dicks do. Its been around for ages.

I know it wasn't your intention to be funny but this really gave me a laugh. But I know what you are getting at.

A couple of days ago I was out and took a fight I knew I shouldn't with a person who shall remain nameless, I was very soundly defeated (I couldn't even break through his buffs) and got incapped but he skipped the DB and just said good fight. Later that same night I found a Tef who also shall remain nameless I incapped and did the same to, I let him go passing it forward I suppose.

While I find the idea of not delivering the deathblow repulsive frankly, I do think this is something I'll be doing in the future anyway. Not that I find many fights or get many opportunities to deathblow... At least theres the chance he'll stand up and try again. Because almost certainly he'll be the only overt out and about at that moment to find pvp with. He can simply heal BF and come back if he wishes.

At least for now this is how I feel about it and if the deathblow is the mechanism preventing others from doing it, then I'd gladly skip it. I suspect it's not though, I won't get into the reasons I really think people don't pvp. I'm willing to try anything if it will help.

[fozziwakka]

or....

The problem could just be that a large group of players don't feel comfortable doing PvP because they don't feel like their character is ready yet. I don't get a ton of play time between work and family so I have a longer grind than most. But I do plan on entering into PvP once I've advanced some more.

[QuorTek]

Well the op pretty much sums up the way I look at it as well... too much work/expenses for little content + reward + long battles with individuals.

-You could let buffs persist through a PvP death, as well as freedom of choice in where to clone to on same planet, so one can't be camped for kills.
-Any PvP death not resulting in devestating decay on armor/weapons, but more light.
-Make PvP buff packs in a figure of speech, naturally made by docs/entertainers - which would be the same as a normal buff, but can be applied by one self and only would be usefull for PvP and factional PvE only content and wont stack with a PvE buff nor be usefull for PvE and in return for that getting quicker PvP.

As for dicks in PvP, well it is fun to see a fully grown man or woman act like a child in PvP combat before and after.

[Cynar]

I've said it before and I'l say it again. Part of playing a sandbox mmo is creating your own content. Don't count on us for everything and we aren't trying to make this a themepark mmo. Yeah those are the ones you can jump right back into a fight. All i ever hear is reward reward reward. We didn't look for rewards when this game launched in pvp. Themepark mmo's have turned people into a bunch of spoiled rotten little needers.

Some of you have imagination, use it and come up with your own pvp events. If you wait and count on us for every single little thing you are going to be sorely disappointed. We just don't have the staff to make everyone's wishes come true. This is a marathon server folks, not a sprinter. Some ideas will come to fruition slowly and over time. Some won't happen at all. For now pvp is something you are going to have to fix. We've given you the tools most certainly.

[fozziwakka]

Themepark mmo's have turned people into a bunch of spoiled rotten little needers.

Cynar for the win!! Exactly why I no longer play LOTRO.

[zackjdl]

I've said it before and I'l say it again. Part of playing a sandbox mmo is creating your own content. Don't count on us for everything and we aren't trying to make this a themepark mmo. Yeah those are the ones you can jump right back into a fight. All i ever hear is reward reward reward. We didn't look for rewards when this game launched in pvp. Themepark mmo's have turned people into a bunch of spoiled rotten little needers.

Some of you have imagination, use it and come up with your own pvp events. If you wait and count on us for every single little thing you are going to be sorely disappointed. We just don't have the staff to make everyone's wishes come true. This is a marathon server folks, not a sprinter. Some ideas will come to fruition slowly and over time. Some won't happen at all. For now pvp is something you are going to have to fix. We've given you the tools most certainly.

Thank you for your feedback Cynar as always

I never expected you guys to create any content for us nor organize any PvP events. All I was suggesting was to change a few mechanics to make PvP more appealing to the average person. Sure, we can always organize PvP Events or Tournaments but these are only temporary solutions. The only meaningful PvP (in my opinion) is BH vs Jedi. Non BH and Jedi will very rarely encounter real PvP on this server unless they are really looking to pick fights.

For what it's worth, I'll go ahead and post a few ideas. Go ahead and rip them to shreds
1. Faction point decay. Players lose a small percentage of their total faction points each week (to encourage constant PvP). Higher ranks lose more points.
2. Keep buffs if killed by player.
3. No longer lose faction points when killed by player of opposing faction.
4. Increased faction reward for killing players.
5. Defeated players will be locked out of PvP for 5 minutes after cloning. (Prevent faction farming, clone camping, revenge killing).
6. Officer Ranks are permanently Overt (Lieutenant and up).
7. Covert players will have their faction affiliation hidden. (You shouldn't be able to see a players allegiance if they are covert imo)

I absolutely understand everyone is hesitant to make any changes. I'd like to stress that I'm not expecting any overhauls or content additions. I appreciate all the feedback and I hope everyone can look at these with an open mind.