Jedi getting heals from friendlies.

[skyhunter11]

Jedi getting heals from friendly factional players is growing problem. In the past, most jedi players didn't do it because its so shameful to do so in one on one combat. Jedi are more and more increasing using this tactic to stay alive and discourage a bounty hunter. I wont mention any names, but tonight i had 3 medics healing one jedi, it was a fruitless effort. Unfortunately none of my trusted bh allies were online to put this to a swift end. On live, BH tef was exclusive to the jedi and bh and no help is given. I miss that. I don't think there are any plans to fix this, can anyone inform if this is intended?

Narrk

[Stranger]

So BH hunting in groups is fine but Jedi getting a bit of help is a problem now? If you ask me Jedi friendlies should not only be able to heal the jedi but should be able to attack the BH back.

[StepoKedur]

So BH hunting in groups is fine but Jedi getting a bit of help is a problem now? If you ask me Jedi friendlies should not only be able to heal the jedi but should be able to attack the BH back.

This! Also you hear and see often two BH with a jedi or two in tow as well going after a mark...

Nothing wrong with jedi getting a little healing

[Markfly32]

I was one of those 3 healing. And will continue to do so. Don't tell me I can't protect my guilds Jedi.

-Markfly
<IMPS>

[KushSan]

BRING BACK THE GOOD OLD PRE9 JEDI/SABER/EVERYTHING TEF SYSTEM!

[BigQEd]

BRING BACK THE GOOD OLD PRE9 JEDI/SABER/EVERYTHING TEF SYSTEM!

Looking at it.

[Brianklein33]

BRING BACK THE GOOD OLD PRE9 JEDI/SABER/EVERYTHING TEF SYSTEM!

I propose we just flag everyone and have one massive apocalyptic brawl

[zaner13]

Jedi getting heals from friendly factional players is growing problem. In the past, most jedi players didn't do it because its so shameful to do so in one on one combat. Jedi are more and more increasing using this tactic to stay alive and discourage a bounty hunter. I wont mention any names, but tonight i had 3 medics healing one jedi, it was a fruitless effort. Unfortunately none of my trusted bh allies were online to put this to a swift end. On live, BH tef was exclusive to the jedi and bh and no help is given. I miss that. I don't think there are any plans to fix this, can anyone inform if this is intended?

Narrk

On live, Narrk, the current BH TEF on Awakening did not exist. (AKA 15 minutes and keeps you TEF'd the entire time as long as the BH is attacking - I JUST learned about it tonight). On live, if the Jedi did NOT attack the BH there was no TEF for the Jedi and they were able to walk into their houses as long as they were peaced out. The TEF also only lasted 5 minutes, so the Jedi could attack the BH, realize "oh no, too strong for my padawan skills" then run away for 5 minutes until they could enter a house (if they were lucky to survive). BHs were also pathetically weak on live and needed massive groups to take down a full template jedi. Not once, when I was full template on live, did I ever give a crap about BHs, as a matter of fact, I swatted them down like flies so bad that everybody left me be after the first month. The only way I got action was through the TEF system, when the BHs would come in to attack a new padawan, I'd feed them force/heal them (almost always unbuffed) and then proceed to do what Mace did to Jango. This server is completely different than live. BHs can drop a Knight now, something which was almost completely unheard of back in the day and yet you're complaining about a few heals from friends mainly because you didn't do your own due diligence?

Let's break down what you did. You go to Diarmid to wait for said jedi, you engage said jedi.

Did you bother to think of why people go to Diarmid? To get buffs. Even YOU do that. You lucked out before getting said unbuffed Jedi, good for you. Unfortunately for you today, we were buffing for the Geo Cave for my main, Zaner. Did you bother to go in the cantina and look around? Did you bother to do reconnaissance? No. So you opened fire with a full team getting buffed up with me on my Master Doctor, Zanen. But it's Awakening's fault that you didn't do your own due diligence? I've hunted and killed Jedi here and by FAR the stack is MUCH more even (traps are a bit OP, but from what I heard they're getting a mild nerf so we'll see). So no Narrk, it's not the healing's fault for you not getting the kills, it's your lack of due diligence. I mean, just be lucky that all we can do is heal...

I agree with Packers...just make everything TEF everybody lmao!

/poke BigEd

Oh crap...I'm TEF'd now hahahahahahaha


*Edit* Packers wants the end of the world...I misinterpreted that...so I retract my statement and am in favor of the old TEF system (where everything still practically TEF'd you) lol

~Zaner

[Xiphos]

The ability of Jedi being healed by nearby allies is calculated into our current balance of BH/Jedi combat. Healing a knight or overt Jedi will TEF the healer, and an opposing faction BH or opposing faction allies of the BH may choose to engage those healers (or choose not to do so, as the BH currently does not TEF to the healers until s/he attacks).

The BH still chooses the time and place of the attack. As BigQEd mentioned, we are considering further mechanics involving opening the combat to nearby factioned players.

Consider this currently operating as intended and this may or may not be adjusted in the future. Currently BHs may not receive outside heals, and this as well may or may not be adjusted in the future.

[Maldred]

The ability of Jedi being healed by nearby allies is calculated into our current balance of BH/Jedi combat. Healing a knight or overt Jedi will TEF the healer, and an opposing faction BH or opposing faction allies of the BH may choose to engage those healers (or choose not to do so, as the BH currently does not TEF to the healers until s/he attacks).

The BH still chooses the time and place of the attack. As BigQEd mentioned, we are considering further mechanics involving opening the combat to nearby factioned players.

Consider this currently operating as intended and this may or may not be adjusted in the future. Currently BHs may not receive outside heals, and this as well may or may not be adjusted in the future.

This is excellent news.

With this in mind I am now taking applications for pocket healers. The pay sucks. There are zero benefits. You will be duck-taped to me at all times. The environment is hostile and oh yeah...you may die, a lot. But at least it's a worthy cause!! All interested parties please go to your nearest shrine and wait for me.

[saboteur]

The ability of Jedi being healed by nearby allies is calculated into our current balance of BH/Jedi combat. Healing a knight or overt Jedi will TEF the healer, and an opposing faction BH or opposing faction allies of the BH may choose to engage those healers (or choose not to do so, as the BH currently does not TEF to the healers until s/he attacks).

The BH still chooses the time and place of the attack. As BigQEd mentioned, we are considering further mechanics involving opening the combat to nearby factioned players.

Consider this currently operating as intended and this may or may not be adjusted in the future. Currently BHs may not receive outside heals, and this as well may or may not be adjusted in the future.

This does sound like a nice mechanic and might assist newbie jedi with there grind.

[StepoKedur]

The ability of Jedi being healed by nearby allies is calculated into our current balance of BH/Jedi combat. Healing a knight or overt Jedi will TEF the healer, and an opposing faction BH or opposing faction allies of the BH may choose to engage those healers (or choose not to do so, as the BH currently does not TEF to the healers until s/he attacks).

The BH still chooses the time and place of the attack. As BigQEd mentioned, we are considering further mechanics involving opening the combat to nearby factioned players.

Consider this currently operating as intended and this may or may not be adjusted in the future. Currently BHs may not receive outside heals, and this as well may or may not be adjusted in the future.

This is excellent news.

With this in mind I am now taking applications for pocket healers. The pay sucks. There are zero benefits. You will be duck-taped to me at all times. The environment is hostile and oh yeah...you may die, a lot. But at least it's a worthy cause!! All interested parties please go to your nearest shrine and wait for me.

If you have any spare homunculae healers mate throw some this way too

[davej30]

The ability of Jedi being healed by nearby allies is calculated into our current balance of BH/Jedi combat. Healing a knight or overt Jedi will TEF the healer, and an opposing faction BH or opposing faction allies of the BH may choose to engage those healers (or choose not to do so, as the BH currently does not TEF to the healers until s/he attacks).

The BH still chooses the time and place of the attack. As BigQEd mentioned, we are considering further mechanics involving opening the combat to nearby factioned players.

Consider this currently operating as intended and this may or may not be adjusted in the future. Currently BHs may not receive outside heals, and this as well may or may not be adjusted in the future.

How does this affect neutral hunters? The jedi helpers may have been TEFd to the opposite faction but thats no good for the neutral BH.

And while we are at it,something has happened recently,i dont know if its increased toughness,improved saber block or Fb damage changed.
So something has changed although im not going to disagree with it,but again it leads me to the question of what actually do jedi want.

Because on the one hand i hear they want 1v1 but they dont like it when they lose.
You come as a 2 or 3 man team and they dont like that either.
And we cant go down the factional route really as all that will be is jedi team battles.

[davej30]

error

[Markfly32]

error

Just like posting the location of your mark(fly) in neutral chat hehe

Markfly
<IMPS>

[Xiphos]

How does this affect neutral hunters? The jedi helpers may have been TEFd to the opposite faction but thats no good for the neutral BH.

This is true. A neutral BH, however, enjoys other advantages.

We're constantly working to improve our unique system, and understand it isn't perfect...but we do hope it's enjoyable for both sides.

[davej30]

error

Just like posting the location of your mark(fly) in neutral chat hehe

Markfly
<IMPS>

It happens a lot,keep watching neutral chat
I would have moved a bit quicker if i was in your position you where only about 1min ahead of me.If it was my jedi i would have run to the hills immediately!

[tnick]

Bounty hunters are considered the scum of the universe. They are supposed to use any means necessary to bring in their mark and for that reason are supposed to be the most hated people in the galaxy. I would be damned if just sat back and watched a friend get tracked down without tossing in support. Neutral bounty hunters stay neutral to avoid being faction TEF'd when fighting Jedi, a lowly trick (yes, I would do it myself) and since you can't be attacked we must do the next best thing, heal our Jedi friend in trouble. I hate how people think PVP in MMO's should be all about 1v1. This is the stupidest thing ever. Who cares about the honor in 1v1, we aren't knights of the round table. Don't come bringing the heat if you aren't prepared to get burned.

[Anlbrd]

So BH hunting in groups is fine but Jedi getting a bit of help is a problem now?

Yes. Obviously. Jedi are stronger than BH. The balance ebbs and flows but the state of play is ideally such that a BH going solo against a top-tier Jedi better bring their A-game to survive. Hence the trap adjustment etc. Right now in order to hunt alone players have had to resort to spending millions and millions of credits to get the LLC required, tape up to full and then get the Jedi in the right situation.

That being said - By the sounds of it Narrk you couldn't have picked a more 'wrong' situation :p

I think having pocket healers carries it's own drawbacks. Whilever having a pocket healer generates vis and terms the Jedi - I kind of see it as the price they're paying. Guaranteed missions available, and no one is covered EVERY SECOND they're online. We all make mistakes.

From all the changes to the Jedi:BH system here it seems fairly plain (and I'm sure they'll correct me if I'm wrong ) that the devs don't want the system to have to be a PVP duelling minigame - they want to see the purist version of the assassin mechanic as the most obvious and viable way. Do it fast and dirty - with 3+ of you the risk is more that you miss your mark, than your mark turns around a shitstomps you because you didn't bring 15 of your friends for the TEF-party. The great thing about this incarnation of the Bounty mechanic is that the individual bounty hunters make their choices, as with everything else in SWG. You've got some hunters who swear by a rigid system of ethics, whether about faction or giving the Jedi a chance or not hunting padawans. You've got others who are 'get shit done any way you can' and you've got people who blur the lines between. Pick your moment and get stuck-in quickly (As Narrk evidently had in the past, killing the Jedi unbuffed in the same location previously). That same flexibility is afforded to the Jedi. You accept the termed status and deal with hunters, you avoid terms like the plague, you keep healers, you reject them because you want challenging pvp etc etc.

So the emphasis is on what Zaner called due-dilligence. Should you be able to follow a waypoint and slay the Jedi every time at your own convenience and in your own time? Absolutely not - what would be the point in that? Many would say that going after a Jedi stood with a master Doc could only have one obvious outcome.

That being said its about the reality of the current game-play, rather than the vision and rose-tinted glasses. Narrk will know a lot more about this than me, so I defer to his judgement on whether this situation is happening often enough to have become a systemic imbalance. I'd say there's a real issue if having a doctor basically nullifies the BHers' chance of doing anything to someone unless they AND THEIR FRIENDS are all taking a smoke break together and that this has become the norm for most of the Jedi, most of the time. Is this the norm? The Jedi I come across are rarely grouped with anyone unless they're dungeoncrawling.

BRING BACK THE GOOD OLD PRE9 JEDI/SABER/EVERYTHING TEF SYSTEM!

Looking at it.

I've stretched my imagination paper-thin trying to think of a way that Awakening can have our cake and eat it re: the global TEF and bountyhunting. So far - I've struck out every time. As far as I can tell this is a true dilemma, with only 2 realistic options. Off or on. The BH game is either about assassination/small scale fracas or obselete as the TEF turns it into waypointed group PVP explosions. With the global TEF - I remember pvp-ready Jedi rarely being alone and whilst it might seem to be an idea that would kick-start the GCW sometimes, more often than not (and this will be amplified by the relatively small community) it turns into - the more grouped Jedi = win by default. Granted our Jedi aren't as strong and BHers aren't as gimped, but a true global TEF kills bountyhunting in its current form precisely because it takes the brakes off.

The only other way I could think of would be to buff Jedi to piss-take strenght and allow a 1-way TEF vs the Jedi, but one that cannot extend to their group/guild in any way. Again, while I can think of a few funny stories that would result from it - it sunders the very core of the current idea of BH v Jedi. For one - it means that you'd NEED a lot more players, every time and this is a problem with EMU population. Two - it shifts the game very far to the 'gank only' end of the continuum. The Jedi and BHers who enjoy their small scale pvp with the same targets and NOT knowing who's going to win or run 100% of the time would miss out here, and they're not the vocal minority.

Separation of the GCW from the BH/Jedi mechanic is a good thing, imho - as an extension of that the limited number of people who can get involved in Jedi v BH pvp is what defines the current system. I really miss the TEF clusterfuck nonsense because the craziest shit would happen in Live. You'd get sucked into fights that you didn't even know were happening until they'd engulfed you and your Bol group near the Warren.

The closed-loop PVP between Jedi and BH is what makes it what it is. Whilever the doctors healing Jedi are an environmental factor that BHers have to overcome, I don't see a problem. When they become a permanent fixture of the Jedi's game, across the board - then its something that might need to be mitigated.

$0.02, but what do I know? I'm only the windowcleaner.

[Anlbrd]

As a thought - (unlikely as it might take more coding than it's worth) - could we have a TEF on the doctor(s) that only applied to Adhesive Mesh traps, with the same freezing effect? Known "healer-piggybackers" would be tackled by groups of BHers and they'd have to coordinate their traps to sabotage the Jedi's healing, without being able to directly kill or be killed by the Jedi's groupmates?