If Awakening revamped Jedi

[AmerineJL]

Is the frs going to be vanilla swg frs, or custom. Vanilla frs had its issues, it was easily fightclubbed, it de-incentived jedi pvp vs non jedi, as killing a non jedi got you nothing while killing another frs jedi did give xp. But the biggest problem was that the frs was imbalanced in regards to the 5 different jedi professions as well as between the light and dark side frs

What i mean in regards to the profession imbalance is that the bonuses given, gave great improvememt to enhancer, powers, and healer, but gave literally nothing to sabers since saber attacks are based on weapon damage, and nothing to defender because of its passive nature other than ai. So getting higher ranks increased the disparity between the different jedi specs themselves. Force armor at rank 6 was much stronger and more force efficient to the point defender was worthless.

The other imbalance was that the frs bonuses were different between the light and dark side. A dark side powers user who is rank 4 would do more damage than a light side powers user of the same rank. Or a rank 8 light jedi's force armor was much stronger and more efficient than a dark jedi of the same ranks. From a pvp balancing perspective this makes it a nightmare to balance individual skills and specs.

I realize this was done for lore reasons as the nature of the darkside is more about damage and power while the light is supposed to be more about control and healing, but using lore to make gameplay decisions doesnt = good gameplay.

You captured the essence of the FRS perfectly here. It was a total mess. I don't believe the FRS can be implemented in any manner close to how they did it in live because it was so broken back then. And the FRS was essentially still in Beta even on live so it was never a finished system. I would rather see FRS ranks implemented as more of a cosmetic system based on a limited grind like the knight trials for the sake of robes and maybe crystals. None of the EMU servers are big enough to support further segregating Jedi from the other classes in a FRS with decaying ranks. And balancing Jedi is hard enough already, as shown in the ongoing BH debate. My one wish is for powers to be fixed instead of saying 'FRS will fix it.'

[StepoKedur]

I like what you wrote, especially this

And balancing Jedi is hard enough already, as shown in the ongoing BH debate. My one wish is for powers to be fixed instead of saying 'FRS will fix it.'

[lassic]

I guess I want to know, will Awakening revamp Jedi? I think Pub 9 is make or break for us all.

Let's get real for a minute. If we do not do something to grow this community and maintain a donation base, this server will not be able to sustain itself. Every single one of us needs to be aware of that and first do our part by keeping up with donations, and second by making an effort to grow and maintain our server by being good to eachother, especially in/after PvP situations.

Awakening needs some work when it comes to risk and time invested vs rewards. Jedi is one example of this, but there are others that I won't get into. The effort to balance PvP Jedi has made them pointless in PvE and discouraged them from working together or playing with their guild. Jedi isn't alpha here so why go through the process? It is a huge difficult process on Awakening. The system is set up so that jedi get frustraighted and quit to keep them rare. Well, when they quit their donations quit with them. If we do not fix these issues I do not believe the server can survive. It is no easy task. Sony spent a truckload of money and couldn't make it work, but I believe in this community, which is why I'm here. I think we can make this work.

In the meantime, win or lose please be cool to each other. There is a human on the other end of that BH/Jedi and we need as many people as possible playing and donating here.

As I have been reading this, there is one underlying theme I have seen. There is a thought process that someone else's fun at gameplay should be diminished or impacted by another player's gameplay, being okay.

There is a difference between "hard mode", and skewing or shifting the gameplay, such that it becomes un-fun. I can speak, anecdotally, to at least eight players we lost due to the current BH v. Jedi gameplay. These were good folks, and not ones who whined about, oh my exp's. It was more about, not being able to do anything with their characters in the guild, because of the current balance of BH power v. Jedi Power.

I don't know what the answer is to the issue. FB with an LLC, knight robes being too strong, etc. No idea. I just know that when we wanted to do stuff with our Jedi, it was always an issue that BH would roll in and impact our fun.

The one thing that would mitigate this, and I think I have said it before, is sabertef. It is unrealistic as shit to think that a group of 10 people all of them combatants, would sit back and let their friend get murdered. I have heard the cries of BH over the thought of this. If you are a soldier and your job is to take out a target, do you attack the target when he is the most supported or defended, or do you wait until he is alone and then take them out? It is basic tactics. You should not be able to roll up and start attacking people with impunity. You wait until your mark is alone and then take them on. The argument of, they will always roll 5-10 deep, is fallacious. With the current population we are talking about 2-3 times a week where a jedi might be going out on guild hunts. The rest of their time will likely be farming the high end loot, since they can. So, they will likely be alone and then you take your shot.

Anyway, I quoted my friend Talmoc on this. He hits it on the head from a different angle. I just needed to elaborate on my first post. Pub4 Sabertef helps a lot of our gameplay issues. I will also piggyback on what he said about being cool during/after pvp. Don't be a dick. It is simple. There are several members of this community that get off on being a douchnozzle in general after a pvp battle. Take that shit to tells, or to the smack talk forum. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the new folks, and some of us who have been around for a while just don't want to see your e-peen measuring.

[L4TCH]

I guess I want to know, will Awakening revamp Jedi? I think Pub 9 is make or break for us all.

Let's get real for a minute. If we do not do something to grow this community and maintain a donation base, this server will not be able to sustain itself. Every single one of us needs to be aware of that and first do our part by keeping up with donations, and second by making an effort to grow and maintain our server by being good to eachother, especially in/after PvP situations.

Awakening needs some work when it comes to risk and time invested vs rewards. Jedi is one example of this, but there are others that I won't get into. The effort to balance PvP Jedi has made them pointless in PvE and discouraged them from working together or playing with their guild. Jedi isn't alpha here so why go through the process? It is a huge difficult process on Awakening. The system is set up so that jedi get frustraighted and quit to keep them rare. Well, when they quit their donations quit with them. If we do not fix these issues I do not believe the server can survive. It is no easy task. Sony spent a truckload of money and couldn't make it work, but I believe in this community, which is why I'm here. I think we can make this work.

In the meantime, win or lose please be cool to each other. There is a human on the other end of that BH/Jedi and we need as many people as possible playing and donating here.

As I have been reading this, there is one underlying theme I have seen. There is a thought process that someone else's fun at gameplay should be diminished or impacted by another player's gameplay, being okay.

There is a difference between "hard mode", and skewing or shifting the gameplay, such that it becomes un-fun. I can speak, anecdotally, to at least eight players we lost due to the current BH v. Jedi gameplay. These were good folks, and not ones who whined about, oh my exp's. It was more about, not being able to do anything with their characters in the guild, because of the current balance of BH power v. Jedi Power.

I don't know what the answer is to the issue. FB with an LLC, knight robes being too strong, etc. No idea. I just know that when we wanted to do stuff with our Jedi, it was always an issue that BH would roll in and impact our fun.

The one thing that would mitigate this, and I think I have said it before, is sabertef. It is unrealistic as shit to think that a group of 10 people all of them combatants, would sit back and let their friend get murdered. I have heard the cries of BH over the thought of this. If you are a soldier and your job is to take out a target, do you attack the target when he is the most supported or defended, or do you wait until he is alone and then take them out? It is basic tactics. You should not be able to roll up and start attacking people with impunity. You wait until your mark is alone and then take them on. The argument of, they will always roll 5-10 deep, is fallacious. With the current population we are talking about 2-3 times a week where a jedi might be going out on guild hunts. The rest of their time will likely be farming the high end loot, since they can. So, they will likely be alone and then you take your shot.

Anyway, I quoted my friend Talmoc on this. He hits it on the head from a different angle. I just needed to elaborate on my first post. Pub4 Sabertef helps a lot of our gameplay issues. I will also piggyback on what he said about being cool during/after pvp. Don't be a dick. It is simple. There are several members of this community that get off on being a douchnozzle in general after a pvp battle. Take that shit to tells, or to the smack talk forum. It leaves a bad taste in the mouths of the new folks, and some of us who have been around for a while just don't want to see your e-peen measuring.

Your stench of FEAR arouses me

[Cynar]

I’m going to drop a comment in here and say when Publish 9 goes live:

1) The Awakening unlock system will remain in tact.

2) Aurilla will be the same as emu other than xp and timers being adjusted to be in line with our playstyle.

3) The Padawan Trials will be more difficult than emu

4) Jedi leveling will remain the same.

5) The Knight Trials will remain the same.

6) The FRS system will be the same as emu other than xp/maintenance requirements being more in line with Awakenings playstyle.

Those were all will happen for sure. The might happen are listed below:

A) We are entertaining implementing group tef

B) We like the idea of saber tef but it has not been looked into yet


I would like to have a completely different type of FRS system than was done in Vanilla or on emu. This however would require more people willing to contribute time to coding that know how to code. We can’t beg or pay people to do this. We are willing to accept and review code submissions that could improve any part of the game. Re-writing the entire FRS system from scratch would take a tremendous amount of work. Some things you just can’t mod or tweak the way you want, it can takes lots of code.

Ideas are great, but they don’t get the work done. Our dev staff is too small as has almost no time to code as it is. Rewriting parts of the game isn’t out of the question, it just requires the folks with the time and devotion to spare. Until that happens you all have the choice to stay or go. I would love everything to be perfect but I’m a realist. We will fix what we can when we can, however since it’s inception Awakening has always struggled to find willing people with the skills and time to code.

[lassic]

Those were all will happen for sure. The might happen are listed below:

A) We are entertaining implementing group tef

B) We like the idea of saber tef but it has not been looked into yet

This is actually what I was talking about. Someone corrected me a while ago and said that it was called sabertef initially. Basically my point is, if you attack a group, the group can attack you, regardless of faction.

[Cynar]

Those were all will happen for sure. The might happen are listed below:

A) We are entertaining implementing group tef

B) We like the idea of saber tef but it has not been looked into yet

This is actually what I was talking about. Someone corrected me a while ago and said that it was called sabertef initially. Basically my point is, if you attack a group, the group can attack you, regardless of faction.

I’d like both to go into Publish 9. I don’t know if I can afford to buy the devs that much booze though.

[lassic]

I will pitch in. Let me know.

[davej30]

I would wait till the FRS is active and has been rolling for a good while.

I will mention a couple of things apart from my disdain of group tef,you all know my opinion on that,sever pop will spike then fall off quicker then the amount people are currently claiming its dropping by.

Biggest problem i've noticed of late and i have been playing my jedi recently to be more acquainted with it,Is simply put,most jedi are unequipped for PvP.
There is a far cry from spamming dervish at a voritor lair then fighting actual people,feels to me that people are given a gun but with no tuition on how to fire it then complain the gun didn't kill anyone.
People need to understand that a jedi is not an instant i win button,they may have never had a jedi on live and didn't know what it was like to be hunted or just feel that a win is automatic vs everybody.

Jedi as it currently stands is still a very powerful alpha class,maybe not so much in respect to BHs but still alpha.
I took ursa out for some PvP despite my convictions about the jedi class,Mundanes where chopped down like wheat to the point of not even ranking as an irritation,this saddened me a lot.I could also stand toe to toe vs two jedi although i knew what the eventual outcome would be in the end,that too was disheartening.

When things had quieted down narrk decided to BH me on his own,I may add narrk is one of the best BHs on the server and i am inept where the jedi class is concerned,however i understand the PvP mechanics of this game so maybe there was some sort of balance there.
Said fight went on for approximately 30mins (or felt like it) with no outside help,people where still asking me if i was still fighting narrk after certain periods of time had elasped.
In the end it was like 4.30 am and i was beat so i gave in,if the fight had contuined it may be likely narrk would have won,especially as jedi is not my chosen profession.

Now personally if had any influence over anything i would probably give a little on traps but not fastblast even more so bearing in mind a lot of people don't actually know what the ability does.With robe toughness giving the equivalent of half of a master defender i would say it is needed.

Like i just mentioned i would give something on traps but not until i see the results of the FRS, but then that might prove inconclusive as if you cant fight or are unwilling to learn a few things i doubt many will advance enough to enjoy the benefits of increased force and stronger attacks.

[lassic]

Terry, I was not talking about server pop in general. I was referring to people I know who have moved on because of this. I have no idea about FB and robes.

Anyone not set up to fight jedi, shouldn't be able to. That is the nature of the beast. Jedi should mow down all who come before them, save those who are prepared specifically to fight them. BH, and other toons who are specc'd to do so. The catch to that is, if you are wearing no armor to fight a jedi, you will get murdered by the dude with the T21, flamer, or PH.

All things being equal, the 1 v 1 fights are going to be what they are. Or in the case of BH, up to 5 v 1. You are going to have those who are good at it, and those who suck. You are absolutely correct in the assessment of player skill, and being set up and practiced in PvP. There are a lot who are very ill-prepared. The only way to correct that is time and experience.

[StepoKedur]

Are you an mDef on the jedi Terry?

[davej30]

Are you an mDef on the jedi Terry?

yes for the following reasons;

I believe jedi should have classes and not be swiss army knifes,you can not do it all and you should not be able to.

If you are going to make a jedi crash test dummy then logically you are going to make the most BH proof jedi possible.

As i'm not down with the jedi thang,making a jedi that would have good offensive vs other jedi would be pointless.

[StepoKedur]

I would expect an mDef to last a while. Sounds like a great fight though! Did you film any of it?

[davej30]

I would expect an mDef to last a while. Sounds like a great fight though! Did you film any of it?

Not at my end if i use nvidia to record i can't dual box,not that i did in that scenario and my mind more more on narrk then anything else as he is one shrewd fish,he may have recorded it but i doubt it.

All things being equal, the 1 v 1 fights are going to be what they are. Or in the case of BH, up to 5 v 1.

Where am i going to field 5 good men from?,people really overestimate the number of hunters in <BH> and the availability of a very small outside party help.
My guild usually scales hunters per jedi, very rare you will see more then three hunters vs one jedi,not since the days of xman and packers in their prime with the extra 24points will you ever see five hunters.
Yet even with two hunters which i saw last night someone was crying "gangbang" and 2 bh vs one jedi was unfair,lucky i didn't join in and make an unholy game breaking trinity.

Lets just spin it around for a min and say Gtef was available.

You could snap your fingers and easily have a 5 jedi crew,doubtful you could say the same for the BH group its an unpopular job.
The more likely scenario is a full group for the jedi,with stackers,combat medics,doctors and a full compliment of jedi,you wouldn't be able to get anyone else to join the group as it would be full!
Thus securing jedi domination the mark wouldn't die,a fair percentage of the group would but not the mark,don't underestimate the love one feels for a jedi brother and would gladly give their life for him so he is the ONLY toon that walks away from it all.

[lassic]

I really loved those fights. So many times did the BH jump a friend did that turn into a FFA. I remember hours of dragging corpses, resing them and then buffing them.

I don't see it as a down side. I appreciate the clarification on numbers of BH v a Jedi. I don't want to hear the whining in gen chat from either side. Seriously. It is so tiresome. The snapping of fingers to get five jedi is just as inaccurate as saying you will have five BH. Most of the time there are no more than 1 on at a give time for a guild event. Maybe two. So, during those periods the odds would be against the BH against a Jedi and his friends. That is as it should be.
I think it would just change the dynamic, personally.

[davej30]

I really loved those fights. So many times did the BH jump a friend did that turn into a FFA. I remember hours of dragging corpses, resing them and then buffing them.

I don't see it as a down side. I appreciate the clarification on numbers of BH v a Jedi. I don't want to hear the whining in gen chat from either side. Seriously. It is so tiresome. The snapping of fingers to get five jedi is just as inaccurate as saying you will have five BH. Most of the time there are no more than 1 on at a give time for a guild event. Maybe two. So, during those periods the odds would be against the BH against a Jedi and his friends. That is as it should be.
I think it would just change the dynamic, personally.

I feel that Gtef is a pandora's box,sounds really good until you open it then realise everyone is screwed apart from one lone jedi,it helps breed jedi packs,jedi packs lead to gcw dominated by jedi and jedi leave server bored.
You hand feed Jedi players and it wont make any difference they will still leave as they came to play jedi power battles and not SWG.

Anyway enough of that,maybe off topic but i noticed you typed something about guild participation earlier or talmoc or whoever,too many quotes within quotes.
As a guild it is possible to have a guild kum by yah with the current meta.
Why i am saying this i do not know, maybe i am feeling generous.

But your PvE group could consist of one squad leader,two combat medics and two jedi.
The two dirty glowbats can transfer force to each other and the two combat medics can heal the jedi and the squad leader is self explanatory (no force run needed,save points!).
Two bh nay even three do not posses the firepower needed to crack that hideous tactic open, 4-5 is possible? again i'm not so sure we tried it with packers a long time ago and it didn't work in our favour.
You can help your fellow jedi, it is limited but it is help nonetheless,i am not guaranteeing they wont die but they will definitely have an extended life expectancy.

Of course if five jedi knights want to come down to your little swaray and bust you all up that's a GCW thing

[kithsyn]

Glad to see there is some real discussion about significant changes.

I'm for the GTEF.
For LS dmg to be increased.
For traps to be scaled back.
For Powers to be fixed.
For the FRS ranking system.
For all Jedi to get their Xp reset to zero with the significant changes to the profession and ability to change their templates with the publish.
For Jedi defenses to be spread throughout the different trees.
For Jedi to be more viable in PVE than stackers.
For penalties for Jedi staying logged online afk for hours at a time in their houses
For FR 2 (maybe not FR3 cause that requires a commitment to an entire discipline) to be scaled back or BHs to be given ability in a certain tree to hamper it.

[hynkelchtonq]

I have never been a Jedi. I'm not a specialist in the Star Wars universe either. Nevertheless, I wanted to say that the FRS annoys me.
The idea that the Jedi have time to bang each other to know who is the strongest at a time when the Empire is chasing them all and eventually kill them all (or almost) seems inconceivable.
The GCW is on. The confrontations between Jedi and BH are part of the strategy of the Emperor and Vader to lead the galaxy. It seems to me more important to focus on the GCW than on the FRS that pollutes more this war and the game that it serves them.
(Unless of course it is the Emperor himself who is behind the organization of this fight-club but in this case the perma death must be activated. >:D )

[Cynar]

One thing players need to keep in mind is that we are trying to reproduce what Pre-CU was, with some minor custom tweaks. It has taken swgemu(in some form) more than 12 years just to re-create the server side of things for them. We do not have the development staff to code that, nor are we trying to re-write or re-create a whole new game. We are trying to take what is provided to us by emu and re-tweak that a little. If some coding can be done by our team to add features, functions, or repair these items, we most certainly will attempt to.

The game was designed to have an FRS in addition to and separate from the GCW. It's very difficult to undo core server/client features the way the design is without re-writing entirely. If you look at the other emu projects out there that are making major changes to professions, gameplay, or core features they have been failing miserably. They have either wiped multiple times due to database corruption or worse, closed down. If they haven't, then they are too young in inception and it just hasn't happened yet. As soon as they build a good population and maintain the numbers for some time, they will experience that problem without a doubt.

We have had some major database issues for 2.5 years due to some code changes we made, plus the quirkiness of Berkley, however our Admin/Dev staff has been extremely diligent to keep our word and to keep Awakening from wiping. It's never 100% guarantee, however we have tried like hell to keep our word on that. Making massive core changes and re-writing a client diminishes that promise to a level we have a low control of success over. Like I said Ideas are great, but what some people are looking for is a AAA version of SWG 2.0. For that please send all emails to EA since they have the licensing.

[AmerineJL]

One thing players need to keep in mind is that we are trying to reproduce what Pre-CU was, with some minor custom tweaks. It has taken swgemu(in some form) more than 12 years just to re-create the server side of things for them. We do not have the development staff to code that, nor are we trying to re-write or re-create a whole new game. We are trying to take what is provided to us by emu and re-tweak that a little. If some coding can be done by our team to add features, functions, or repair these items, we most certainly will attempt to.

The game was designed to have an FRS in addition to and separate from the GCW. It's very difficult to undo core server/client features the way the design is without re-writing entirely. If you look at the other emu projects out there that are making major changes to professions, gameplay, or core features they have been failing miserably. They have either wiped multiple times due to database corruption or worse, closed down. If they haven't, then they are too young in inception and it just hasn't happened yet. As soon as they build a good population and maintain the numbers for some time, they will experience that problem without a doubt.

We have had some major database issues for 2.5 years due to some code changes we made, plus the quirkiness of Berkley, however our Admin/Dev staff has been extremely diligent to keep our word and to keep Awakening from wiping. It's never 100% guarantee, however we have tried like hell to keep our word on that. Making massive core changes and re-writing a client diminishes that promise to a level we have a low control of success over. Like I said Ideas are great, but what some people are looking for is a AAA version of SWG 2.0. For that please send all emails to EA since they have the licensing.

My biggest worry about the way ahead is the FRS. It was poorly designed in live and that led to massive abuse. The simple solution to me is to balance Jedi separate from the FRS then use the FRS as a cosmetic system with little functional meaning beyond robes. People PVP to level up, as coded, but it doesn't decay, and you are done. That sounds extreme but the fight clubbing was dreadful and the server size is going to cause people to meet just to kill one another...and that will lead to fight clubbing in smart or dumb forms.